Monday, November 28, 2016

It’s a Family Affair, Thanksgiving Conversations and Election Misgivings

Before thanksgiving, I read a lot of facebook posts about how to avoid over the election at Thanksgiving. Some suggested you change topic by rallying everyone to steal the neighbor’s lawn furniture.  Still, one conversation after another came my way.  Some of my frustration is toward Obama who shut down Occupy and kept Black Lives Matter at an arm’s length.  Frances Fox Piven has long said Obama needs a movement.  And he certainly could have embraced these movements, expanding the conversation, reaching out to labor, etc.   Instead he hired Lawrence Summers, embraced the best and brightest and put these movements at bay.

But thinking about Trump and Republicans, I started thinking about AIDS and the years when my friends were dying.  And the government did nothing.   Then the Bush years came and it got worse.  Poor people, people with AIDS, Hepatitis C, Trans folks, those on the margins suffered in countless ways as the year Reagan/Bush/Bush years wore on.

I worry about the Friedrichs case coming back to the supreme court, about the Paris deal over the climate crumbling. And over the image of the US as a caring place.  Today, I feel like we live in an occupied territory.

So the weekend continued, we hiked and talked about Sly and the Family Stone, who Al told stories about, some of the best he ever saw when Sly showed up, or completed the show.  When he didn’t things could get messy. Riots sometimes followed, as legend goes.

Before it all started I posted a note on FB about the electoral college.  And a world of conversation grew from there, between myself and an old football buddy.  The conversation grew from there.

Happy thanksgiving everyone. So 100,000 people in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are more important than the two million more people who voted for HRC. And we end up with a very scary anti democratic racist despot. Isn't this when the electoral college is actually supposed to step in and do the right thing. Do the right thing electoral college. Vote for the person who won the most votes who actually cares about our systems of laws and institutions. Why doesn't my vote in NYC count as much as a vote in the Midwest? Its like we're still living with the Three-Fifths Compromise here. WTF?
Top of Form
LikeShow more reactions
Mark Leger
Mark Leger Yes. And I would love to see a demographic analysis of this inequity.

Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Ben, even MSNBC and CNN called the election "The Race to 270". It wasn't "The Race to 270....unless we don't get our way". Be thankful we are in a country where everyone's vote counts and not just the blue coasts. If you want the electoral to essentially throw the election, you are worse than a despot. Nobody hated the electoral college the morning of November 8 when Hillary was predicted to collect over 300. I know it's tough, but take a step back and remove yourself from the rhetoric and BS because the belly aching and ranting can be seen as insulting sometimes. And I know you mean well.
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Benjamin Heim Shepard i hear you chad. why not have a popular voteChad Dunston? what about the two million more people who voted for hrc? the state of ny sends more to the federal government than we get back and now it looks like our votes count less? and not everyone's...See More
John Welch
John Welch I think a lot of people have hated the electoral college for a long time. It's not as though these are the agreed upon rules of the game and dems are sore losers. These are rules no one currently alive participated in setting. They were inherited f...See More
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Benjamin Heim Shepard
If there were a popular vote, candidates would never campaign in between a line from NYC to LA and Chicago to Miami. Texas is the exception because it has a large population outside of greater Houston and Dfw. You would have a c...See More
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Benjamin Heim Shepard Chad Dunston always good to hear from you friend. We'll have to agree to disagree. But i agree. WE are too divided. Would rather have us become a country of regional spaces. This doesn't work. I know you would not be too happy if your side lead by...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · 19 hrs
Jeanne Hilary
Jeanne Hilary Chad Dunsten I'm not against the electoral college for the reasons you cite. But the logic of the EC was devised when the majority of Americans didn't live in cities; now we do, over 65% of the US population is urban. Urban voters voted for Clinton by ...See More
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 14 hrs · Edited
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Sorry you're terrified. I'm also sorry you live in a world where you believe so much make believe. But have fun!!
Like · Reply · 6 hrs
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Benjamin Heim Shepard Chad Dunston thats a bit of an ad hominem comment. People use them when the rational of their points disappears so they resort to name calling. I thought that was what you were trying to avoid.
Like · Reply · 5 hrs
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston How am I name calling? The poster proved my point anyway. She believes the urban vote is more important than the rural one. That's as elitist and dismissive as it gets.
Like · Reply · 4 hrs
Brian Griffin
Brian Griffin If you can't see how you just called Benjamin delusional, i.e. ad hominem, one wonders what else is missing there. Let's try to keep this conversation interesting for us readers only by keeping it on point.
Like · Reply · 3 hrs
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Ha! I called Ben delusional? I have never done that to Ben. Don't see that. I simply pointed out that the electoral process was acceptable until Hillary lost.
Like · Reply · 3 hrs
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Write a reply...

Shirlene Cooper
Shirlene Cooper Happy Thanksgiving Ben
Douglas Silver
Douglas Silver Here's a good article about the math. If you live in Vermont, North Dakota or Wyoming, your vote counts more mathematically than if you live in California, New York or Florida.

Dan Wood
Dan Wood Well Put!! Happy Thanksgiving to you too!<3
Jeanne Hilary
Jeanne Hilary Douglas Silver exactly. This is how the Electoral College is supposed to work, in a system that included the 3/5ths law and whose economy was mainly agricultural. It made sense then to weight electoral power toward the areas with low populations but which were responsible for the majority of the economic *production* in the colonies that became the US. (Not the 3/5ths law--I'm not saying that). Today that is not the case: the vast portion of US economic production takes place in cities and states with large urban populations. Ergo my dodgeball analogy: EC is not some idea of everybody gets a prize for participating. EC was also set up to overrule the popular vote should the people, in the grip of some kind of mob hysteria, elect an unfit, anti-democratic demagogue by a majority vote. They didn't foresee a situation in which in a fit of mob hysteria a minority of the voters, less than 25% of registered voters, could elect an unfit demagogue who would make it to the White House only by strength of the institution founded to prevent exactly this from happening. Trump and Clinton are not candidates with different political philosophies; Clinton has the requisite ability to be president, Trump does not. Let the whole world burn for the sole reason that "it's always been done this way" is irresponsible, and cowardice (on the part of the EC and the political establishment) nothing else. Also, Clinton won the popular vote by a significant majority, so, apart from precedent, this really should not be a heavy lift.
Like · Reply · 3 hrs · Edited
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Wow, Jeanne, now I'm part of a mob. Awesome. Talk about delusional. All you folks need to face the possibility that you are actually wrong. I know it's tough.
Anyway, apologies to Ben, but I can't argue with people with closed minds and unwilling hearts. But if you really want ad hominem, here's me pointing at the scoreboard and silently walking off the field.
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
Jeanne Hilary
Jeanne Hilary Chad Dunston the words are those of the founding fathers, not mine. Here are my words: you may have voted for Trump because you wanted lower taxes, or because you hate Hillary Clinton, which makes you an idiot. If you voted for Trump because you think a wall on the Mexican border, or a registry for Muslims are good ideas, you're a bigot. In both cases, and in light of your uninformed comments here, you're a fool, because Trump isn't going to do any of that. The EC was established to protect the republic from people like you. I just hope we all don't have to pay the price for your ignorance and stupidity.
Like · Reply · 2 hrs · Edited
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Idiot. Bigot. Fool. Stupid. That's what you just called me, yet you have no clue who I am.
That's the issue with people like you. You assume Trump voters are all of these things. You might want to actually entertain the possibility that people vote for other reasons. I don't think you can.
It couldn't be that Obamacare is a disaster. It couldn't be that our strategy to deal with ISIS has been inept. It couldn't be that people have not seen a raise in 15 years. It couldn't be that people don't want the policies of Obama to continue. And it certainly doesn't explain why democrats got destroyed across the board down ballot.
Look, I understand you're upset, and if insulting me personally makes you feel better, that's fine. I'm thick skinned. But you must understand that you are wrong on so many fronts. Mainly, I'm not a bigot or a fool. I can be an idiot and stupid at times, so I'll give you that.
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
Jeanne Hilary
Jeanne Hilary None of these reasons justify voting for an incompetent, unfit candidate like Trump. I stand behind what I said, and I speak for myself, not "people like me", the preamble to every statement of bigotry. I have entertained quite a few reasons why you may have voted for Trump, I would entertain as many as you like. That doesn't change the fact that you were conned. You voted for chaos and corruption. You voted for a national security disaster. I won't take up the issues you raise which are opinions and which don't correspond to fact. You really should try to get some knowledge, it's your responsibility as a citizen of a democracy.
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Write a reply...

Benjamin Heim Shepard
Benjamin Heim Shepard Hey guys, Chad Dunston and i have been buddies for over three decades together. We agree to disagree. Chad Dunston is none of these things mentioned, except maybe a little impatient with the Cowboys coach when we were losing. But we can all go from there. Thanks for a good chat everyone. Everyone, can we stop the name calling. As for me, i think the republican party is the party of citizens united deciding corporations are people and underminding democracy, financial crisis, one after another, 2008 and 1929 and hostility to social programs. But we can all agree to disagree. I hope we can find a way out of this mess. And yes, Chad many of us have been mad about the antiquated electoral college for a long time, long long before this round. But as a man with values and a father, i do wonder how you could support Trump. Our experience in New York is the guy has never cared an iota for anyone or thing but himself, certainly not regular people. Go Dallas Cowboys!

Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston Thanks Ben. I don't mind your rants. They come from a real place. I agree with you on about 30%. So one out of three ain't bad. Cowboys make me nervous. I can't take another heart break.
Like · Reply · 2 mins
Benjamin Heim Shepard
Benjamin Heim Shepard You're the best Chad Dunston! Have you followed up on your commitment to stop watching games as long as Princeton is in charge? Anywqays, take care friend.
Like · Reply · Just now
Chad Dunston
Chad Dunston No. but I give him zero credit for this.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · Just now
 Bottom of Form

After a weekend away, its always good to be back to holy Brooklyn, even if it isn't part of the rest of the USA,
which is probably a good thing. 

No comments:

Post a Comment